| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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4 races start
the game 75% immune to the common diseases of Morrowind .... none of
these races are native to Vvardenfell province and only one of them
is neither man nor mer.
Common Disease and Blight Disease do not
strike all that often even on races with no natural
immunities.
Several creatures never become diseased or
blighted.
Many of the diseases available in the TESCS are unused
ingame or applied to only one NPC involved in minor side
quests.
So I am starting work on a small mod, here is the
outline:
The Khajiiti, Argonians and Orcs would recieve a 25%
immunity to common disease, The Dark Elves would recieve a 0 %
immunity to common disease, the other six races would receive
weakness to common disease ranging from 25% to 50%.
Cure common
disease potions and spells would be harder to make and more
expensive to buy. Cure Blight Disease potions/spells are already
costly to buy, and would be made more difficult to make.
Diseased
creatures would appears more often on levelled lists and
sooner.
The probability of disease transfer would be
raised.
The possibility of getting more than one disease at a
time would exist.
Defeating Dagoth Ur would still have the usual
effects re blighted creatures.
Diseased and blighted
slaughterfish and netch would exist
some new spells would be
issued to various NPC's such that the PC could get hit with
diseases. Armours and clothing that have CE disease immunity would
be modified and/or repriced. Some diseased weapons would be in the
hands of NPC's. Some traps in logical places would cast disease
curses on the PC should they be tripped.
Some deadbodies would
when opened give a parting gift to the opener.
There are several
reasons behind the thinking for this mod:
1) The actuality of
diseases for the PC on MW does not match the fearsome build up about
them.
2) Health care is always and everywhere an economic
sinkhole and as many threads on these forums suggest, after a few
levels the economy on MW is a bit of a joke.
3) The Healer
specialty would now become a more valuable specialty.
4) Disease
warfare is as old as warfare.
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| Melchya |
| Acolyte |
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| Reged: 05/16/04 |
| Posts: 149 |
| Loc: Aalborg, Denmark | |
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ehh, is this a
mod that you're planning to make or what?
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one very big mod list
My
eyecandy
P.E.T.A- people eating tasty animals
^^suport
it and copy this in ur sig^^
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Quote:
So I am starting work on a small mod
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| Iudas |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
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It is. Right
now it is in the planning stage, pencil on paper and such.
Posted
the idea to see if there were any gaping flaws or foolishnesses that
some of the people here have already faced and overcome.
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Ok
small in kb size but maybe large in the effect on gameplay.
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Quote:
small in kb size but maybe large in the effect on
gameplay
A mod (or anything, really) doesn't
have to be big to be good.
I think all of the changes proposed by this mod are very
good. I have to admit I never gave any thought to the races and
their starting immunities until this minute. Some of these ideas
seem really interesting to me: the possibility of getting
more than one disease, the utilization of unused diseases, diseased
and blighted slaughterfish, traps casting disease curses and
especially dead bodies giving the player a disease.
There's
one thing I've never understood about the way the game handles
diseases though: how is it that diseases make the player weaker but
make the player's opponents stronger?
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this is a
great idea! Diseases where always kind of a joke in this game. Do
you think it would be possible to add lasting effects for serious
diseases, like the onger you wait to getting it cured, the higher
the chances of permanent repercussions on the general health of the
PC,
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What about the
Altmer? It's actually Elder Scrolls lore that they have 'high'
blood. And weakness to disease would make their extensive variety of
weaknesses -- all elements and magicka -- unbalanced by lacking any
positive effects of choosing the Altmer race.
But the Altmer
are native to Vvardenfell by no means, so racial Weakness to Blight
could easily be explained and defended.
Quote:
this is a great idea! Diseases where always kind of a joke in
this game. Do you think it would be possible to add lasting
effects for serious diseases, like the onger you wait to getting
it cured, the higher the chances of permanent repercussions on the
general health of the PC,
Permanent? No... that's harsh.
But progressively worsening symptoms would be interesting. And
symptoms that last for some period of time after curing... Good
ideas, and not too difficult to arrange, I imagine.
Edited by thejameslehman (08/13/04 04:06
PM)
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
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Probably
possible with scripting. I was hoping to avoid scripting.
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| Iudas |
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Good point
about the altmer. balances nicely
5 races with some level of
disease resistance
3 non man non mer 1 with high blood and 1 the
result of being exposed to the native diseases ( selective
adaptation )
and 5 races with weakness to the local
diseases.
Weakness to blight
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Very good
idea. Making races more susceptible to disease would also make it
easier to become a vampire (or werewolf?). One wonders how Altmer
ever became vampires with their high resistance to common disease,
but the head of Clan Aundae, among others, is Altmer. Some may think
it unbalancing but for my own personal use I eliminate the common
disease resistance on Altmer and give them some magicka resistance
instead (and also up their damage from shock and frost spells). The
premise is that their "blood" makes them superior handlers of
magicka, whether they are dishing it out or on the receiving end.
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only thing is
i think the dunmer should have some disease resistance, i mean, not
blight resistance, but common diseases, after all, it is there
homeland, so they would probably have natural resistances, like when
we get the flu shot, it teaches our bodies to kill the virus, so
wouldent the dunmer have the same effect?
but it doesnt
matter, its your mod 
--------------------
http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/browse.php?dir=scifiguy52
<- my pictures
Realm of the Damned thread
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I like the
idea a lot, but I'm confused as to why the Dunmer wouldn't have any
resistance to Common Disease... they've lived in Morrowind for a
loooong time, and even though the PC is an outlander even as a
Dunmer, resistance to disease can be passed down through
generations, and the way the game is set up it seems like the player
was originally from their province, but got arrested for whatever
reason, so the Dunmer should have a resistance to the Common
Diseases of Morrowind. I think.
...unless you're planning on
giving everyone ELSE (other than Argonians, which definitely seem to
deserve their extremely high defense against disease) a weakness to
disease...
--------------------
Tenth Era
MacHall
"She may look cute, but I've heard she can be quite a... Let's
just say she can be hard to handle."
~Hugo the Tactician
"Blinding light, bind my foes in unbreakable chains! Disperse
the Shadows! Ray of Paralysis!"
~Saradin Carm
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There is a
difference between Dunmer and Altmer. I was talking about Altmer.
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i know, i was
talking to Iudas, i just reply to the last poster, sorry, bad habbit
--------------------
http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/browse.php?dir=scifiguy52
<- my pictures
Realm of the Damned thread
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Heh, as was I,
but SciFiGuy pre-posted me. Hehe, shouldn't be too hard to figure
out.
--------------------
Tenth Era
MacHall
"She may look cute, but I've heard she can be quite a... Let's
just say she can be hard to handle."
~Hugo the Tactician
"Blinding light, bind my foes in unbreakable chains! Disperse
the Shadows! Ray of Paralysis!"
~Saradin Carm
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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I agree about
the dark elves having common disease resistance, it's in there. I
didn't mod the high elves but did increase the disease transfer
chance and the frequency with which diseased critters appear. And
have added 6 diseased critters that I thought were missing from the
game. Insane Slaughterfish, diseased and blighted dreugh, diseased
netches, and bonelords now also transmit disease.
A lot of
corpses that layabout MW not doing anything useful will now attempt
to transmit diseases to the PC when he opens them.
The last
things I am planning to do is create some diseased traps on
containers and plant them in 6th house bases and along the route to
red mountain and in some logical telvanni locations.
I have
arbitrarily set the diseased critters to start coming out of the
woodwork about levels 3-4 to give the PC some time to get his feet
wet.
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
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I think it
should make acquiring vampirism and werewolfism easier.
I left
the High elves with their high disease resistance and doubled the
chance of disease transfer. And made some major modifications to the
ease of making cure potions and the values of them. Haven't messed
yet with the frequency or prices of healing spells but I
will.
Basically Healer has become a nice speciality instead of
being an about useless one. Alchemist is still a nice speciality
too, but the fighter types might find themselves spending a lot of
money for cure potions and healing spells.
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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As the mod
stands now:
Altmer, Argonians, Orcs, Khajiiti, and Dark Elves
have some resistance to common Morrowind diseases.
Imperials,
redguards, nords, bretons and woodelves have weaknesses to common
Morrowind diseases.
Nobody has resistances to Blight
disease.
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| Ronin49 |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 03/08/04 |
| Posts: 1792 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Iudas - This
sounds very good. Feeding up the undernourished NPCs and making
disease a more potent game factor will present a much more
challenging early and mid-game. Excellent concepts: thank you, both
for the ideas and for working to bring them to
Vvardenfell.
--------------------
"And to everyone
seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's the answer
to all your troubles." Neoptolemus
Mythic Mods
----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Well the
undernourished NPC's mod is now at the long slog stage.
About 350
NPC's give or take a few to look at ingame and also in the cheat
manuals to make sure nothing gets broken and no one gets insanely
overpowered.
I have made a few changes to the basic premise of
the mod as during the course of looking at various NPCs, I have
found about a dozen who are in the wrong factions or not in any
faction when they obviously belong in one. Mostly these faction
corrections are at best cosmetic and at worst invisible, although
they do give a hook for other modders who might want to carry on
something with the C&EO or the EEC on Vvardenfell or even with
the Camonna Tong.
The diseasemod is something I have had in the
back of the head since I first got MW. And with the strong string of
threads recently about draining some of the cash from the later
stages of the MW economy; it just seemed a natural ( that and the
fact that I just got this years health insurance bill and it is up
50% from last year for less coverage ).
Now let me ask you a
question: Assume you start a new game with the difficulty slider at
5 and no difficulty enhancing mods installed, no god mode toggled
on, no cheats or easylevellers used.
At about what level does
your PC easily handle any of the physical challengers MW throws at
you ( vivec DagothUR the other subDagoths, therana, baladas, divayth
fyr if you take him on ) ?
same question for Tribunal (
almalexia, the impervects,)?
Finally same question for Bloodmoon.
At what level finally is there nothing and no one left in MW and the
expanions who can challenge your PC?
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| Ronin49 |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 03/08/04 |
| Posts: 1792 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Quote:
Now let me ask you a question: Assume you start a new game
with the difficulty slider at 5 and no difficulty enhancing mods
installed, no god mode toggled on, no cheats or easylevellers
used. . . . At what level finally is there nothing and no one left
in MW and the expanions who can challenge your PC?
Hmmm . . . let me think on this.
The caveat of course is it depends in part on how you play
but I would say, off the top of my head, that by Level 40 or so
there is no opponent who can really touch a wily character. As I
said, let me think on it.
--------------------
"And to
everyone seeing naked and headless people, READ THE README!!! It's
the answer to all your troubles." Neoptolemus
Mythic Mods
----> Starting Out With Mods, Telesphoros' List o'Mods,
Ronin49's Lists & Links, Theme Mod Lists.
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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That is about
where I thought it would come in give or take 5 levels 40 sounds
about correct for an unmodded GOTY.
Add WGI and I think 50
becomes about where the game loses challengers.
So using the old
rule of thumbs of 3.5x for a challenge given the braindead AI, I get
an upper limit on NPC character level of 175 by the time the PC is
finishing BM. With WGI installed the rule of thumb changes to about
2.5 because the AI is now just a little slow not brain dead.
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Hey,
I
was searching for diseases and your post came up, Iudas. i took a
look at what you've come up for ideas about this mod and i thought
that what i'm working on would blend quite well with what you've
got. I've made a few ideas for retexturing for different diseases.
though that's all that's been done so far. a few people said they'd
maybe do some skinning (since i have no skills). if you're
interested you can check out my post here.
--------------------
"Once my
friend told me that he had found Jesus. I thought to myself, "Woo
hoo! We're rich!" It turns out he meant something different." Jack
Handey
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i'm with wyrd.
how come the same disease makes all your enemies strong but make
player weak? doesn't make any sense
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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For your
enemies, Blight and Corprus are just steps on the way to oneness
with Dagoth Ur. To them they are not diseases but
improvements.
For the critters and the common diseases,
critters just get nastier when they are sick. One of the rational
wildlife mods makes a good addition to any game.
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Who are you
intending to retex? the PC? There are only ( I think ) 6 diseased
NPC's in the basic game and a bunch of crazy semi naked nords on
Solstheim. Diseased critters don't appear to attack NPCs ( guards
will attack critters ) the critters will actually bypass NPCs to
continue attacking the PC.
If you have found the NPC DIN up
near Gnisis he has serp*** dementia....crazy as a loon, got if from
being bitten by a slaughterfish which is interesting because there
are no diseased or blighted slaughterfish in the game.
When
the PC is diseased, NPC dispostions toward you go down. When NPCs
are diseased the PC could not care any less.... diseased NPCs have 0
effect on the gameplay.
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| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Iudas this is
a brilliant Idea!
I was going to tamper with something like this
so as to cause
a further drain on PC Gold.
I look forward to
seeing it take shape: ) 
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only my
dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Here's where
this one stands.
Have the diseased and blighted critters added
that were missing before ( sealife and netches )
Have them in
levelled lists so that the PC has a few levels before he starts
getting diseased.
Have repriced the cure potions, reducing their
drop frequency is next ( gad I hate mucking about with the levelled
lists )
Have rejiggered the ingredients to make making cure
blight and cure disease require costly ingreds that are hard to find
in nature.
Spells and enchantments are still awaiting
work.
GMST that deals with disease transfer chance needs to be
tested.
Scripts that give disease to the PC need to be double
checked and then modified so the PC can get more than one disease at
a time. And more than one type of disease ( blight and common
).
Racial modifiers for weakness to diseases need work...initial
changes were too severe. One Imperial character was so diseased that
no one would trade with him so he couldn't make any money to get the
cures deadending a PC is not what I had in mind
I
also need to maneuver a way for healers to not have their
dispositions affected by the PC's disease status.
Work on this
mod is not being hurried as I have two other mods in process and
some really unfortunate real life crap that always impedes just when
I think I have some hours to spend.
Oh and there is a superb
gadget mod Dwemer Bio Monitor by Tundro Walker that automates making
cure potions when it is in the PC's inventory. I will have to go
through that mod and check how he scripted the cure disease potions
part.
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| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Sounds
good!
Only thing I would be careful about are
disease effects
that drain strength; if
you make the effect too severe or you
make a way for the pc to get more than
one disease, a big
drain on strength, one that
forces the player to drop loot and
weapons
in order to walk to a healer might turn people
off.
Personally, the costlier you make potions,
the more
difficult you make the ingrediants
to find,
the more HellJoint
riddled rats you place in the
game world, makes it a happier
place for me
Good
Luck on this Friend 
--------------------
But I, being poor, have only my
dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread
softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B. Yates
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Quote:
... one that
forces the player to drop loot and
weapons
in order to walk to a healer might turn people
off.
Ah the Midas dilemma, my daughter
or my gold....my stuff or my life.
There is always divine
intervention, almsivi intervention, mark and recall. Now if there
were only some random undiseased trash pickers roaming the wilds
looking for piles of dropped weapons and armour and loot well that
would be even better 
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| BlindEye |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 04/09/04 |
| Posts: 92 |
| Loc: Canada | |
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Quote:
Now if there were only some random undiseased trash pickers
roaming the wilds looking for piles of dropped weapons and armour
and loot well that would be even better
LOL now that would be
something!
I remember in Neverwinter Nights, ( I think )
there were
these shades in crypts that would steal random gear
from you
if they touched you; fun, fun, fun! (stamps foot like a
rabbit in march).
Another Idea would be... what if there was
a random chance
that you're interaction with an NPC, would give
them you're
diseases also, causing them to attack you in
retribution!!
--------------------
But I, being
poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your
feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W. B.
Yates
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I was talking
about retexturing for the PC. i dind't know about the dementia one
though. i just looked through the editor. If diseases become more of
a prominent thing then maybe mods in the future will add them NPCs
and critters for you to contract. like i said though, nothing has
really gone through with this. it's all just been talk. until
someone wants to do the texturing this isn't going anywhere.
--------------------
"Once my friend told me that he had
found Jesus. I thought to myself, "Woo hoo! We're rich!" It turns
out he meant something different." Jack Handey
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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OK.
I had
not thought about retex for the PC. I never use 3rd person POV so to
tell the truth I never know what the hell any PC I am playing even
looks like. Now if there were real reflecting mirrors in MW
Magic Mirrors even.
Mirror Mirror on the wall
Show me my
diseases
Show them all.
So by a rough estimate you need ten
races times 2 sexes x how ever many diseases and blight diseases and
then again for diseased Vampires and Werewolves, retexed?
And
diseases stop being a factor in the game for the PC after he gets
the corprus cure from Divayth about half way into the main quest.
Blight disease is supposed to stop and blighted creatures
disappear after the PC defeats DagUr.
Really the only motivation
for my disease mod work is to make the very early and mid game
economics more interesting. ( well that and I got this hugemungous
Health Insurance bill the other day and needed to take it out on
someone....my PC was the closest victim container )
Edited by Iudas (08/23/04 07:51 PM)
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i guess you
make a good point. a lot of effort for something that's not going to
be worthwhile in the end. oh well it was a neat idea.. at least in
my head.
--------------------
"Once my friend told me
that he had found Jesus. I thought to myself, "Woo hoo! We're rich!"
It turns out he meant something different." Jack Handey
Post Extras: |
| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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Nothing says
it isn't a neat idea or worth doing.
Sometimes I think in math
terms and math is a wee bit cold.
Just take what I said and use
it as a basis for thinking outside the rules.
You want diseases
to be worth something and have an effect.
The game, as it was
originally written, talks a lot about diseases but they never amount
to a hill of beans.
So change the things that are impeding the
diseases from being useful for gameplay/roleplay.
Alter the end
of the main quest, Just because DagUr is dead doesn't mean that
Blight storms have to end or that Blighted animals have to
disappear. Volcanos are natural nasty things, so even with its
resident wussyboy dead, Red Mountain is still an active
volcano.
Common diseases don't really amount to much anytime in
the game so change that. After the PC "wins" the mainquest there are
still ashstorms, so have being out in an ashstorm be able to give
the PC a disease.
Diseases don't stack, so change
that.
Divayth's Corprus cure gives the PC resistance to Corprus,
Blight and common disease while the PC is on the main quest. So with
DagUr dead and Corprus no longer a consideration, have the Blight
and Common Disease Resistance disappear from the PC. ( it was all
magical to begin with so with its anodyne dead the magic dies too if
you want an explanation )
NPC's don't really react all that
negatively to you when you are diseased, so change that, make the
game a real PITA for the PC if he gets Diseased.
Hell make the
healers all belong to the VMA ( Vvardenfell Medical Association )
and have them raise their prices 100 fold for healing and make the
PC wait for weeks to get an appointment to be healed. ( So Sorry Mr.
PC sir but the Healer's appointment calendar is completely booked
with golf games and Noble clients but we can give you an appointment
in 6 days at 4 in the afternoon. Do be ontime or the appointment
will go to the next customer on the waiting list.)
Introduce the
concept of Imperial Health Insurance for the PC. Some drone in Seyda
Neen can sell you an insurance policy for so much a day; but if you
fail to pay, your insurance lapses. And if you get diseased you find
out that the policy has "fine print" restrictions such that it
doesn't cover various ailments if you are of specific races or
factions or whatever.
Change all the corpses in the game so that
they automagically give the PC a disease if he opens them.
My
only point in the above post was that you want a whole lot of
retextures ... not that it wasn't a good idea to have them and
certainly not that there were not things you could design that would
make those retexes worth doing.
Post Extras: |
| cyran0 |
| Initiate |
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| Reged: 06/04/04 |
| Posts: 58 |
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I must say, I
love this idea! I suppose that I hadn’t realized how underpowered
diseases were since I play conservatively, and don’t loot diseased
corpse and such. (Afterall, who’s going to knowingly eat diseased
shellfish?) I will point out one concern about tweaking the
ingredients to make cure potions more difficult to make. There are
other mods people use that introduce new ingredients and/or alter
the original, so there will be compatibility issues. I wonder if
there is not another way to achieve this end. I think it would be
desirable to dial down the power of alchemy in general. If there is
a game setting that regulates alchemy success, and if it is set for
a greater rate of failure, it effectively increases the cost of your
cure potions (a greater quantity of ingredients will be consumed in
the process of making a few potions). The only game setting that I
saw was the seemed relevant is iAlchemyMod (“1142”) with a value of
2, but I don’t know what it governs. Has anyone tested this setting?
Anyway, just a thought. Regardless of how you decide to handle that
issue I will be running the mod (and I only use a couple dozen mods
at present).
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| Iudas |
| Disciple |
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| Reged: 10/30/02 |
| Posts: 1197 |
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The only game setting that I saw was the seemed relevant is
iAlchemyMod (“1142”) with a value of 2, but I don’t know what it
governs. Has anyone tested this setting?
Yes. BeanCounter tested this
specific setting some time ago.
It specifically controls the
value of player made potions.
Set to 0 and player made potions
have 0 value, set to 1 and player made potions have about 1/4 to 1/2
of what they have if you leave it at the default 2. There are
several other GMSTS that can be played with in alchemy. fWortChance
controls the level at which a PC gets to identify the first effect
of an ingredient ( 15 ) other values need some futher
investigation.
The issue of compatibility with other mods that
change ingredients is of course a major consideration. Sri's Alchemy
makes major changes to ingreds and potions, BeanCounters Alchemy mod
makes player made potions valueless for barter without removing the
learning effect of making potions on alchemy. Half a dozen grand
mods change or add or change and add ingreds and potions, the skooma
addiction mods change skooma, NOM changes drinks. Just an issue we
have to work with.
Sri's removal of all fortify intelligence
potions from the game and from all ingreds makes a major change.
Further investigation has shown that Luck has an even greater effect
on alchemy than had originally been thought. The quality of the
various alchemical implements can be reduced or conversely their
prices raised and the unprotected sets ( like the infamous set in
the Caldera Mage's guild ) can be better protected, key required
locks on doors, stronger guarding characters.
Thanks for the
compliment about running the mod. It will be a while before it is
presentable and I am by no means certain that all the ideas in the
previous post will be in there. ( Although I am sorta partial to
adding in the insurance saleman concept and the VMA. I can picture a
player having a serious case of the sereptiginous dementia and going
to a healer only to be told there is a 3 week wait for a visit and
that his insurance policy specifies that he is only covered for this
disease if he is a native of Vvardenfell and does not belong to the
fishing academy. 
Now there is realism. ( Din, the crazed Redguard out in the wilds
north of Gnisis has S. dementia which he caught from a slaughterfish
bite ... so I have already added diseased and blighted slaughterfish
to the mod and they do give S Dementia to the PC now )
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